The development of sexual orientation

I know.

I grew up in a conservative, religious environment, so, while I do agree these men are bad people, I think it is wrong to hate them for societal pressure that forces men to hate themselves.

Good thing I didn't say that.

I was trying to say that I have been this way since childhood, but I did not have sexual feelings as a kid. I am a simple person. Please do not read more into my words than what is there. I am 19.

 

IMHO they are bad people. People like them have done horrific things to me. A person who hates themselves and hurts themselves is a sad person who I will fell bad for and sad for. A person who uses their self hate to justify torturing other people is just a bad person.

 

Yes. That’s pretty much where I’ve spent more productive energy. That way I’m not stuck.

Other Rabbit Hole: My wife keeps wanting to know what caused my shift from straight to bisexual, but my therapist and I decided that didn’t make much sense as a focus. It happened. Besides, there were weak clues that I’d been attracted to a variety of people (not just one gender) back when I was an adolescent at least. Now the focus is “what am I doing with it?” and “how does a married monogamous bisexual become visible and authentic?” (I pretty much already answered “_how_ am I doing with this?” by being accepting of myself and marching in Pride waving a flag, and coming out all over the place).

Maybe not a Rabbit Hole, as it helps me: Sometimes I like reflecting on evidence from the past which reinforces the idea that my “I’m straight” period was really not ever Kinsey Zero.
Example: A time I remember I was in my mid 20’s and I was paired up with a guy for a dance since there were not enough women in the group, and I said out loud, arms on him, “Wow! This is different, this is cool!”. He was a little startled. Everyone around me noticed, but folks, including him, were totally accepting (our group included at least one out gay guy and we all considered ourselves LGBTQ allies). I was fine acknowledging the moment (no shame), but it didn’t shake my idea that I was straight. Now it helps me claim bisexuality even more authentically.

I did do some research on “how are we this way, and from what age”. Mostly for entertainment. One of the most fun published materials was from at least 100 years ago, where the hypothesis was that we’re all born bisexual, and some suppress their same-sex desires, others their different-sex desires. Everybody (except the bisexuals who remain open to all their attractions) ends up neurotic and needs psychoanalysis (not surprising the author was a psychoanalyst). Ha! I kept copies of the most relevant pages of that book, and smile.

 

There is something so biological and primitive to sexual preferences (in how they feel) that I will never believe it has anything to do with learning it or being conditioned to it.

I mean, sure, you can live in denial of what your instincts are, but why do that? Why lie to yourself?

 

But pressuring yourself or being oressured to be straight isn't the same as actually being straight. Upbringing can't change your biochemistry in this way. It's not development in a different direction, it's a plain old lie. The conservative culture keeps on telling lies about us, yes, and we internalise them very often. It doesn't change the fact that some things remain hollow when they should come from the inside. They are just an illusion.

 

Not found of those religious right wing closeted folks who hates on lgbts ...that’s just shitty and it’s screwing up society well being, not to mention how many people they hurt. An adult should learn how to deal with their problems...

i remember a psychiatrist mentioning juvenile bisexuality , as of it was a stage everyone goes through at least in essence not necessarily in action.

I’ve always wondered about nature vs nurture on this subject.

while I can clearly see how I was born a certain way , I don’t exclude that a big part of our psychological development also happens in the wound which is heavily influenced by external environmental factors , is the mom at peace or stressed out etc ...

So the concept of nurture may begin earlier than what we commonly understand.

In the same token , I’ve often wondered how much the lack of a same sex figure has influenced my own development, did it push me to identify with my mother instead ? Was my mother under stress in pregnancy because of my father ?

I also wonder how much of the mother influence plays , some may be pregnant with a baby girl but deep inside wanted a boy , total speculation here of that matters or not , but it is something I’ve heard before .

lastly , where there’s no known lgbt in my family , I know there is a gene running on both side that is not straight ...I suspect both of my parents and a few members of my close relatives to be deep inside somewhat trans or bi , they just call it being eccentric while hiding behind religious beliefs and traditional values .

And then we have a nice cocktail of nature and nurture when a closeted parents with internal homophobia pass on their genetics to their children , and fail at being a parent ...

And I all comes down to discrimination creating a snowball effect of trauma through generations.

and you’re stuck to deal with it as a child knowing nothing about life as you’re just learning how to spell your own name .

 

Well said David ❤️

 

I’m late replying on this one so I’m sorry if I repeat anything that’s already been said.

There will always be a nature versus nurture debate on this particular topic. It brings forth lots of different perspectives, experiences and topics of research.

I believe that the development of sexual orientation is multi factorial. A bit of this and a bit of that so to speak (co-factors).There are lots of different biological hypothesis. Genetics, environmental factors such as prenatal hormones (fetal development and hormones) and even brain structure has been looked at by some scientists.

There are so many different studies and theories.

There’s also something called Fraternal birth order which has a correlation to male sexual orientation. It’s also known as “The older brother effect”. This depends on how many sons a woman has. If she has a lot of sons, she can develop an immune response called the maternal immune response. She will develop antibodies that neutralise male Y proteins which affect development of differences between males and females. This causes some parts of the brain to be arranged in a female arrangement and make for attraction to men, See studies by Ray Blanchard, Anthony Bogaett and John Michael Bailey.

I also love looking at studies of twins, particularly monozygotic (identical) twins.

These are just areas I’ve looked at that I find interesting.

 

Are you thinking that if you discover the source of your homosexuality that it will change how you feel about it? That's what I read from this quote above.

For me, the internal knowledge that I have always felt this way is enough for me to conclude that I did not choose to be gay, nor did myself or anyone else "cause" me to be gay, and that I have no control over it. With that knowledge, I can then accept myself fully as a gay man who was "born this way," whether or not it happened at conception, in gestation, shortly after birth, or some combination of these.

Maybe ask yourself why does this examination of the origins of sexuality matter to you? Is it simply an academic exercise or do you think there's more to it for you?

 

I like what you’ve written here Some of us are naturally curious. My degree studies were in human biology and health science so I always love to study why things are like they are, even with sexuality and gender.

There are quite a few people in my own family who are gay as well

 

For a long time, I tried to figure out 'why' but really, I was trying to figure out 'why' so I could 'fix' it.
I still don't know all the answers.I don't think it's a 100% genetic, environment can probably play into it - it's also some confusion about what 'gay' means. Is Lindsay Graham gay because we think he had sexual thoughts? Then were are the childhood molestation cases which confuse things....
I don't know.
What I do know is this is how I experience romantic and erotic love, and how I can express it. When I think about women it's not even close... rather than focus on whether it's a choice or not I started to think about how beautiful it is that I have this gift to express and receive love.. even if I could figure out 'why' why would it matter? I was deeply ashamed that I was gay for a long time, now I just try to focus on being grateful about being able to love this way. I wouldn't want to change that.

Imagine if you could find the guy of your dreams and make love to him- if you're gay the thought of this will probably fill you complete joy- focus n that!