Idk if I want to go to Heaven.....

sorry i kinda drifted off a bit

 

he did bring up religion though.

 

If god does exist then all we know about him has been transferred through man, I mean he didn't directly write the bible himself did he, so if there is an afterlife or not we cannot know except through trusting the judgement and recollections of others, live for the now worry about the afterlife on your death bed... the proverb "Everyone wants to go to heavan but nobody wants to die" comes to mind, i'd worry about the latter for now.

 

I usually don't post much but I have to make a point here: Heaven and Hell are not the way churches portray them. Heaven is a place of Love, where your soul goes and meets with God. Now, God is not exclusive, so as long as you love, help others, preach your thoughts and follow your beliefs as if they're a truth but keep seeking The truth, you're good.

Many religions state that there is no salvation, namely heaven, outside them. They state everyone outside their religion is going to Hell. Well, God's goal was for every human being to live in heaven.

I also want to make a friendly correction to everyone: Hell and Heaven are not places to be compared to those in Earth. Even though many of you don't realize it, our soul's happiness is to be where God is. God is not in Hell. As a matter of fact, Hell is the only place where God is not present. Many churches also portray hell as a place of burning flames, which is not true either.

Hell is a place where the souls suffer for eternity for the simple fact that they can't see God. I don't expect most of you to understand this right off the bat, but please try to reconsider when you say you'd prefer to go to Hell. Research, read, believe. If you then reach to the conclusion that you'd prefer to go to Hell, then you are the one who decide your own fate.

God is a God of love, so as long as you live your life based on three basic rules: Don't lie, don't kill, don't steal. And there are other minor rules, and one that can apply is to live your sexuality responsibly. As long as you don't hurt yourself or others, you're good. There is no need to go to a Church every weekend or to have a big "Christian" life to go to Heaven.

 

Remember that there's no need to be part of a religion to have a relationship with God, and therefore, there is no need to gain acceptance of a group of radicals to be in 'grace'. The people who preach Love and how they're "Christians" and then they discriminate against LGBTs, African Americans, Latino, Chinese, Muslims, etc. are setting a double standard that is wrong, and God will be the only one who will judge them.

 

we can nit pick or we can discuss the issue

 

the main point i was trying to refer to there is that christ seldom (if ever) had any input into what was being written

 

Howdy. First, you are right, organized Christianity does not have a great history in terms of inclusion of and civil rights for gays.

At this point in time, however, there are several Christian denominations that do. They run the gamut.

Heaven is outside of time and space. It is not time going on forever. It is the conclusion, the completion of time. Our traditions speaks of dying as moving into the nearer presence of God. Heaven is as near as it gets - and we who are inside of time should remember we are unlikely capable of understanding much about it.

Okay, a bit cosmic, but if you'd like to talk further, pm me.

 

So basically, there's really no rules to heaven considering that no one really knows that it exists. It's what YOU believe in.

There are some people who believe that gays won't go to heaven but they're not right nor are they wrong. It's an opinion, or atleast what they believe to be true.

What you believe is your choice. You don't have to decide right this second. I would suggest that you take some time and learn about a few different religions and also about being an athiest and find out what you like best.

Oh, and remember that not every christian/catholic/*insert other religion that's stereotypically against gays here* is against gays. That's like saying every gay person is a sex addict.

 

I lost my faith when i was twelve, as i was discovering i was gay for the second time. i first realised when i was seven, but pushed it down for religios reasons.

I find, in that situation, logic is your best and only friend. Does it seem logical to you that

A, There is somewhere out there which is a place, and yet we can't get there without dying.

B, That gays deserve to die/need to change.

C, That a God exists, and created you to go to hell for being gay.

D, That something (god) was created out of nothing, or that he has always been here, in which case, how can time go on forever?

E, The bible says that the universe is 6000 years old. how is this possible when fossils have been discovered and dated as being millions of years old.

Its just things like these you have to decide for yourself. the inability the catholic church especially seems to suffer from that they cant think logically, is something that really irritates me - i have no problem with faith, so long as its rational, and not offensive to me.

I also understand the desire to go to hell if it exists. if i were to drop dead right now, and discover that god and heaven were real, i am very sure i would go to hell, and i would also chose to do so if i could. in other words, i think satan is more morally right than god. my problem with satanism is that i simply don't believe in satan or god.

So, make of that what you will. what i'm basically trying to say is that i definitely support logic and athiesm, and that i can't tell you what to think. no one can help you through losing your faith, but if you need someone to talk to, I'm here

Spoiler

So let me get this straight: Its a confirmed fact that heaven and hell are not places to be compared to those on earth, heaven is exactly the way that you think, and that no christians have a problem with homosexuality. this is one awesome world [/sarcasm]

dont shove your beliefs down my throat.

 

I'm the last person to talk to regarding religion, because I personally think its all bullshit. Man made religion anyway.

Follow what your mind tells you is right. Don't be influenced by your parents, or whoever else "brought you up with religion". The choice is yours in what you believe.

Just keep in mind, if "god" created us all in his image, and loves us all, how can they say he dislikes gays. Alot of contradictions in books written by idealistic old men.

In the end, the choice is yours.

 

I am sorry if anyone took my last two posts badly, I was not "shoving my beliefs down anyone's throats". I just want to set the record straight: Not all Christians are against gays. I am a hardcore Catholic myself and I understand that God created me Gay and I won't be sent to hell for being gay, I will be sent to hell if my behavior is not worthy of Heaven.

Same way as a straight person might go to hell. Sexual Behaviors are no different between one and the other.

I do have to apologize for what I am going to say: Most of the LGTB community are as radicals as the Hardcore Anti-Gay Christians. They hate but you hate back even more. I don't understand how you all want to feel loved when you just throw everyone religious in the trashcan, set it on fire, then crush into nothingness what is left of it.

God is someone loving, caring, and someone who is reluctant to ALL hate and violence. Going to Heaven is easy, and it doesn't require you to change your sexuality because God made you the way you are. God did no mistake with you, or me. God makes you the way you are. Now, all you have to do is to live your life responsibly: don't lie, don't steal, don't kill, and treat others the same way you would like to be treated.

---------- Post added 3rd Oct 2010 at 07:21 AM ----------

Also, I will encourage everyone here to seek God. Not in a church or a mosque, or in a religion or in a cult. Those are man-made creations and most of them are very corrupt and wrong.

Seek God in the intimacy of your heart, in your room, in your backyard, in the attic, or wherever you want. God is everywhere and wants you to love Him and everyone, whether they love you or not. That is God's mystery, he is Love.

 

This is an interesting debate, I agree with the sentiment that neither side should force views down anyone's throats, whether that be religious people insisting that they are right and everyone else is wrong or atheists in turn ridiculing faith/religion. I think certain people of both sides should listen more to other people and respect different opinions. (In general I mean, I'm not referring to this thread in any way, just to be clear).

As a gay Catholic this has obviously caused some questioning of my faith, and it has wavered on and off as a result, though largely stays intact. Although I'm not the most devout, I still retain my faith in God, and try follow the example Jesus set. However most of my friends are atheists, while one or two are pretty religious. That's all fine, we respect each other's views. What we don't do is insist that our views are right and other's wrong. Faith is a personal thing I feel. I largely agree with jede in that respect.

I'd definitely stress looking past what religions have to say on matters, that is all based on man. You don't need these things to have a belief in God. As a lot of people have said, why would God create gay people only to hate them? It doesn't make any sense. If you love someone, does it matter what gender they are? Of course not. I believe if God exists, then he's loving, and wants people to love, not hate. I bet he's a lot more pissed off at the fact that war and poverty and greed and all that exist, rather than getting upset at what people get up to in the bedroom. So, its a personal thing, and I'd say let yourself think about it, and form your own opinions, and see where it leads you, rather than being troubled by man made texts, and interpretations of them by man.

 

Well I heard that in heaven you don't have free will, thats why satan was a fallen angel, because he thought for himself.

Not relevant, but just saying.

 

Satan sought higher power than God, who is Almighty, and was punished for that. And his power was going to be used for his own benefit instead of others'. He was punished for being greedy, egotistical, ambitious (in a bad way) and for denying that YHWH is God.

YHWH is God's {real} name in the Old Testament, now most churches have adapted it to English as "Yahweh".

 

Try to find some queer theologians and read what they have to say about being a gay religious person.

And if a god is going to send you to hell for your sexual orientation, then ze's not worth worshipping. I'd rather be in hell with awesome LGBTQQ people than in heaven with a bunch of homophobic douchebags.

 

I actually got into a discussion about this very topic with a right-wing friend of mine the other day (who, has no idea that I'm gay, btw).

What I find interesting by the extreme evangelicals is the notion that they presume to have the arrogance to condemn another individual's soul to eternal Hell. I suppose simply because they believe they are devout Christians that they can speak for the Man upstairs, and randomly say: well you're going to Hell because you are a drunk...or you're going to Hell because you're gay, etc.

I myself am a Christian. I believe that there is a God. I believe that Jesus did die on the Cross, even though I haven't been to Church in years.

But I believe that God is a loving and forgiving God.

I was also taught that there is only one Being that can judge Man's soul...and that Being is not on this planet...and that Being certainly doesn't make regular appearances on "The 700 Club".

The viciousness that some preach runs in direct contrast to the very teachings of Christ they claim to cherish. I simply wish they could see that. But they fail to use and recognize the greatest gift that God gave Mankind...the ability to think and reason.

Of course I want to go to Heaven...but I think I'm going to be in line a long time on Judgement Day. I guess when I arrive for my "hearing" at the Pearly Gates St. Peter will tell me, "You might as well get comfortable...you're gonna be here for a while".