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Not doing too well with religious issues

Discussion in 'Coming Out Advice' started by Gir Zim, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. Pseudojim

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    with regard to the debate of whether it is okay to act on your orientation.... i think any religion that would denigrate two people for expressing their love in private because "god says it's not cool" is presuming to dictate god's opinion. Logically, why would any merciful compassionate god impose such a cruel law?

    of course it's okay. I have the feeling those who say otherwise are letting their homophobia rule their better judgement.
     
  2. Lebowski45

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    I agree with what a lot of people here are saying, I thought I'd add my sentiments because this too has been a major struggle for me. My faith used to be rock solid until recent years, when I became a lot more questioning, largely as a result of my own sexuality issues I feel. So in some ways I'm still struggling with faith but I think I've reconciled it with my sexuality.

    For me, I think its easy to get bogged down in the technicalities of religion, and I learned to start dismissing these, I prefer my own personalised faith. While I'll listen to what priests, or the Pope, or the Archbishop of Canterbury, or whoever says, I don't take it as truth. For they are just human beings, and human beings are naturally flawed. I don't even care too much for the Bible (interesting as some of those books may be) except the Gospels. Because Jesus appeals to me like nothing else in the Bible does. I've always admired his teachings on forgiveness and love etc. When I started thinking I might be gay, I dreaded coming across a passage where Jesus denounced homosexuality (since I'd grown up thinking it was somehow "sinful" I assumed he had said this). To my surprise, he didn't mention it at all. He has a lot to say about greed, hypocrites, self-rightousness, people casting judgement on others etc but not a word on homosexuality. I thought Christians were supposed to try and live like Christ, so on what authority can they condemn gay people? In fact, I came across an interesting passage, Matthew 19:11-12, where Jesus, after discussing the issue of marriage and divorce, seems to say that not everyone can follow this path:

    Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

    The site is quite interesting: http://www.christiangay.com/he_loves/Jesus.htm

    My own view basically is that we know that we didn't choose to be gay, so if God exists, why did he make people gay? Why does he care about what two people get up to in the bedroom when there are far more important issues such as war and poverty? What is wrong with two people loving each other, whatever their sex? If two people love each other, how is that wrong? As a Christian, I think about what Jesus would say or do. My understanding of him is that he wouldn't mind people loving each other (love is what he wants people to do), rather its hatred and real evil, such as greed and violence, that bothers him. And I guess that's why I've managed to reconcile my sexuality with my faith.
     
  3. Gir Zim

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    awww haha yeah i still keep getting bashed,good things haters aren't in heaven! lols
     
  4. Gir Zim

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    maybe this will help :slight_smile: i just now found it,it's a prophecy of Jesus

    Isaiah 29:13 The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men
     
  5. Darkwing65

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    Eh, your no fun. Opium is a wonderful drug used in moderation.
     
  6. malachite

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    Ah religion we meet again…seriously I just posted on this issue like a day ago, but its also one of my favorite things talk about.
    I’m going to say something that is very true: The Bible says a lot of stuff…and not very clearly.
    If you bring up the issue that Bible says slavery is ok but you have to follow these rules. (I believe it is you can beat a slave as long as he is able to get up the next day, and no I’m not making that up).
    The Bible also says it is an abomination to eat shell fish or clams or anything that isn’t a fish. It also says eating blood is wrong (meat anyone?) yet the apostles were drinking Jesus’ blood at the last supper.
    When you bring these issues up to people they always reply the same: “well, those things are different.”
    Why?
    Is it because those people have a problem with gays and are usi9ng the Bible as a sword to slay everyone that they have a problem with?
    The long and short of it is, God came to bring us a message of Love and Peace, what the human race did was turn it into a reason to hate and make war.
    It says more about people then it does the Bible.
    And remember: Jesus had two fathers and he turned out ok.
     
  7. yourillusion

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    I think that especially hits the nail on the head. It's getting it through the (my) skull that is the hard part.
     
  8. peaceandlies

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    The bible definitely descriminates against homosexuality. As a person who believes in God, but not the bible, then i would say thats all there is to it. whether god exists or not, the bible was written by selfish heterosexual men who would have shaped and corrupted it to their own whims. thats my take on the matter.

    BUT, as an athiest, I have to say 'examine the evidence, and decide for yourself using logic as opposed to faith whether God exists or not'. basically if God exists, then science will support the theory.
     
  9. Gir Zim

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    well religion is made up by man,but God isn't. Thats what i think based on research.
     
  10. yourillusion

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    I can definitely agree with this.
     
  11. blairSW

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    Hi Gir Zim,

    It looks as though everyone covered what I would have said. I'd like to point out your remarkably positive outlook on this situation. It is evident that you are a very resilient person. Spirituality is a corner stone of many peoples lives and can get them through very difficult times. There is a lot of research done on the importance of spirituality and wellness. I think we are often to quick to toss the "baby out with the bath water."

    I deeply respect your commitment your spiritual (religious) beliefs. I know it isn't an easy journey at times to reconcile your spiritual beliefs with your sexual orientation. Growing up in a rural village conflicted with my sexual orientation, and it caused me a lot of pain.

    Insofar as I believe in a underlying human nature, we are inherently complex. I think you have you have a great opportunity here, and that is being able to honour all parts of who you are. Struggling to be in our own skin, bodies, and minds is a life long journey. Some of use move through it with grace, while others struggle.

    As I read your responses, I saw a grounded, confident, and wise young person. Keep it up, Gir Zim. I wish I had someone such as yourself for inspiration as I was moving through my emerging sexuality.

    Cheers,
    Blair



     
  12. Gir Zim

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    Thank you for your support blairsw,i do struggle sometimes as well and i get depressed,but i don't desert God or Jesus because that is absolutely no option here,and i know he is there...i just have to deal with this in the most logical way possible,i know a lot of people desert there [religion] because of their sexuality,i don't think of my [religion] as a religion ,i think of it as spirituality,a connection to God through Jesus. If you do research on Christs teaching he actually condemned the religious people,hypocrites and talked about love...with him as our guide we can see the real God of love,spirituality(not the man made God of religion) and know him in our hearts for real. :grin: :grin: :grin:
     
  13. Holmes

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    I don't believe in God myself, but you say you believe in Jesus, with think religion was made by man. If you accept what was written in the gospels of what Jesus said, read through that, and ask yourself if that man or God would object to you finding love. Is there a good reason for you not to ignore the rest of the Bible, whether Leviticus or Paul (you could read some Samuel for the description of David and Jonathan's deep friendship)? You could still in a way call yourself a Christian, following Christ, but not the rest. You might find solace in another denomination, like the Unitarians, or another more liberal church.
     
  14. darkcheesse

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    in my opinion a good christian follows the ten comandments, and the ten comandmants don't have anything against it.
     
  15. yourillusion

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    I go to a UCC church and they tend to be open, at least my congregation is (ONA they call it, open and accepting). One of my pastors is a wonderful gay man, and the other is a straight man who's perhaps the most affirming/open person I've met. So there are churches out there who preach Jesus's love and welcome, rather than focus on what's not worth focusing on (imho anyway).
     
  16. padre411

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    Howdy -

    I'm sorry to take so long finding this thread. I'm Mike and I'm the resident ec theologian guy. I'm an advisor so you're welcome to pm me.

    I'm an Episcopal priest. I've figured out that Christian denominations come in two basic flavors. First, there is the spreadsheet flavor. You know spreadsheets. Nice, pretty squares. Very clear borders. Consistent formulas. Clear answers. In these versions of Christianity God and everything else is black and white, yes or no, in or out, male or female.

    Then there are the denominations like mine. God paints with watercolors. There are no clear borders. Things run in and through each other. It can be messy and chaotic. Painting with watercolors can't be completely controlled. But this is where beauty is found.

    The fundamental leap of faith that must be made goes all the way back to Genesis: "male and female God created them." What each of us has to decide is whether homosexuality is a defect in our image of God or part of the mystery of being made in the image of God.

    I'm a mystery man. Spreadsheets can be helpful but watercolor paintings are much more inspiring and do a much better job of showing us the world.

    If you have any specific ethical or biblical questions, let me know. Just remember - Jesus doesn't talk about sex one single time. He talks about taking care of the poor and outcast all of the time.
     
  17. Gir Zim

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    Thanks for being there :slight_smile: i will pm you if i have concerns